For Interpreting Students: The Value of Research Skills

Recently, I collaborated with the brilliant Dr. Christopher Stone of Wolverhampton University in the UK to produce a video about the benefits of learning research skills for interpreting students at the invitation of an esteemed colleague. See end of blog for Dr. Stone’s background (and creds).

The topic came up because some interpreting students wondered why a B.A. was necessary for what they essentially viewed as vocational work. And on top of that, what’s the point of doing a thesis or major research project? We’re never going to do that after we graduate. We’re not going to be academics. How does this [learning to do research] parlay to the basic work of signing stuff that’s being said and speaking stuff that’s being said? I’m not going to get into why a B.A. matters- that’s for another day. But yeah, knowing how to do research matters for emerging professionals. So we put together a half-hour informal conversation. I had such fun so I hope we’ll do this again. Transcript follows the video. Transcription by myself, all errors are mine. Conversation was unscripted, unrehearsed, and off the cuff.

[Speaking to our colleague’s audience]

Octavian: Hello, maybe you’ve met us before? Maybe not yet. My name is Octavian Robinson. I’m a professor of Deaf Studies at Gallaudet University.

Christopher: [shows sign name]. I’m a professor of interpreting and deaf studies at Wolverhampton University in the UK- England.

Octavian: Awesome. The way you fumbled on your fingerspelling, clearly you need to calibrate to ASL fingerspelling from BSL [British Sign Language] fingerspelling. [Laughter].

Christopher: Right. yes.

Octavian: Yeah but it’s really cool to have [know] many different languages. That’s really nice thing to have in your pocket.

Christopher: Yes.

Octavian: Yes, ok. So, Dr. Russell asked us to talk a little bit about why we think research is an important research skill and why it’s an important topic to cover in an undergraduate interpreting program, how that translates into our professional lives. How do we translate research from the classroom into practice as interpreters in the community? Wow. That’s a big question. We gave ourselves about half a hour to try answer that question. Maybe just a little bit. So first, Christopher, can you share a few thoughts about why research is important and how that applies to your practice?

Christopher: First, it’s important to acknowledge that for a long time interpreting research has just touched upon some issues but many questions haven’t been fully explored. What we think we know about interpreting is really sparse. That means now is a good time to for us to push forward with a research agenda. I would say that it’s been maybe in the last 20, 15 years that we’ve accumulated more research. I’d say that scholarship can be broken down into different types. The early focus was on signing that was very specific and detail oriented. I would say that undergraduates have often been very eager to do that kind of research focused more on the linguistic aspect. Who signs well? What are the different decisions involved? What types of situations emerge and the different experiences that comes with those situations. It’s very good that interpreting started there to understand how experienced veteran interpreters reached that level of fluency and how novice interpreters can maybe speed up that progression to fluency. That meant that both deaf and hearing people were better served. There’s value in taking advantage, benefiting, riding on that wisdom and knowledge gained from experience. So at that level, that detailed look was important. That’s grown and now I think there’s higher expectations for our fluency [in sign language] before entering a program.

We have language so we can delve more into strategies, linguistic decision making, how that’s changed, thinking about team interpreting, relationships between the deaf community and interpreters, the working relationship between deaf interpreters and hearing interpreters and the benefits of having deaf-hearing interpreting teams, so that’s a different level of interpreting that looks at larger things- not as microscopic as the focus on specific signing decisions or whatnot. That’s been very interesting, to look at all the different relationships and how we [interpreters] fit into different situations and how we practice reflexivity as a professional community and as individuals. What’s our idea of fitting in? What is our purpose as interpreters? Is it just about making money or something else?

Then on the macro level, now, there’s been growing interest in systems and how the interpreter fits into those systems. Educational, local governments, provincial, legal systems. How do we enter those spaces and fit in? What language do we have and how do we align with all those expectations of the systems/spaces we enter? What do they [those systems/spaces] think of the interpreter’s role or how our work goes? That’s very interesting and I think that’s where interest is really growing. More M.A. and Ph.D. level type of work in thinking about how interpreting can solve some problems, not all. There’s questions about do we adapt to fit into those systems or do we remain more removed and meditate, fitting in a bit without losing ourselves while serving the needs of different people.

My background is in linguistics so a lot of my work concerns that. That’s what was taught in my program and I found it very interesting to explore linguistic questions. In my area there are deaf interpreters on TV and I did my Ph.D. on that. What’s the tangibility of having a deaf interpreter or a Coda interpreter, unpacking that and what it means. There’s something in their work that’s important- the way they embody language, eye gaze, the knowledge they have about different things. I thought that was very interesting. That helps us think about what good interpreting service means. How to engage with communities or fit into different systems. So that’s different levels of research foci we have and those have just really breached the surface, just skimming. There’s more and I know this is already a really extensive answer.

Octavian: [affirming]. Yes. That’s a huge answer, just wow. I’m imagining myself sitting there in the role of student and thinking what’s my takeaway? How do we distill this? For me, I’ll suggest a few things. First, how is our interpreting practice influenced by research? We often have folk knowledge or intuitive knowledge that we informally share among ourselves about why things are the way they are or what the best approaches are. But is our intuition right? I don’t know. We don’t know until we seek answers from data collected…from people, from different types of sources. So you want to be a good interpreter, you want to be in the community, your practice needs to be informed by research. But how do you know what’s good research? What’s bad research? You confront both kinds; there’s so much interpreting scholarship out there. But just because it’s published doesn’t mean it’s good or valid.

Christopher: [Interjects] Right. Yes.

Octavian: So when you start doing research you can develop the skill of reading through the lines, thinking about what sources were used, how the data was collected, how that data was interpreted, what’s reliable? How do you read with confidence and know you want to apply that knowledge to your practice or to recognize bad research and not want to include that in your practice. That experience of doing research makes you a better judge of what scholarship to follow, so that’s one takeaway from what you said. The second takeaway I had was the idea of “the problem”. Often we go out into the world and into the workplace- not just interpreting, but teaching, or anything else, we want to be able to identify problems and solutions. That’s the point of a liberal arts education. The ability to act for change and solve problems in the world. Social problems, human problems. They’re solved by being able to figure out solutions, what those solutions look like, identifying possibilities out there. So that’s my takeaway from your earlier comments. The third takeaway I had was that we need to have the ability to step outside of ourselves and take a larger view of things. You mentioned that we needed to take a larger view, right?

Christopher: Yes.

Octavian: Sometimes we’re too close to things we can’t see them. When interpreting, we’re in the moment, working between modalities and languages and then when the assignment is over, we just blank on what we just did.

Christopher: Laughs. yes.

Octavian: Right, that happens. What just happened?! Our brains were processing things so fast that it doesn’t stick. But when we do research, we have the opportunity to step out of the interpreter role and be able to look at the whole. What’s the different parts that comes together, who are the different players involved, the different actors present and how they’re situated. Take that larger look and be able to analyze that situation. Sometimes you’ve interpreted something then it’s over, you want to figure out what went wrong, what went well, what do we want to do differently next time? So doing research gives us that skill and practice to be able to step out of that situation and remove yourself, well you never really fully remove yourself or your bias from your work, that’s impossible, but you can step back and try to think about things from a different perspective to consider the issues, what we’re doing, what am I doing as the researcher and/or interpreter, what are others doing? So those are my three big takeaways from your comments.

Christopher: Hey, I have one example of taking a larger perspective. When I was doing my PhD, at that time, there was scuttlebutt about deaf interpreters on the tv. They were better, deaf people preferred them, there was just something about how they moved, signed, it seemed more natural, maybe. Well, ok. But exactly what was it that made deaf interpreters the preferred choice? I started collecting data from those televised interpretations and immediately what I noticed was that the deaf interpreters, on the news, would begin with blinking their eyes and a nod, then start signing. All of them. A nod and a blink as in “I’m starting.” Wow. I’d never noticed that before. I noticed that pattern then compared that with hearing interpreters. They didn’t do that. But the deaf interpreters did. Why hadn’t I noticed that before? Then I started seeing it everywhere. I thought that was interesting. That’s a minuscule detail. Once I caught that, it helped me understand how to properly start interpreting. That was a tiny detail.

Octavian: [interjects]. Wow that’s beautiful.

Christopher: yes, [laughing].

Octavian: That’s a beautiful example. That’s a great way of thinking about how, for one, research helps us capture nuance, those little things that we normally wouldn’t notice. And second, research helps us think about the world more critically. Capturing attitudes, ideas, movements, the underlying meaning of different actions. Also makes me think about multiple meanings. We can take this data, this idea, and we could all interpret that very differently. I’m wondering how that impacts your work, I mean, maybe we won’t continue doing research after we graduate with our B.A. degrees but still, it’s a fundamental skill and what does that do for us as working professionals? For one, it broadens our minds, our eyes to capturing more things and thinking more carefully about what we see, what we feel, what we find. That’s such a beautiful example.

Christopher: [laughing]. Haha, aww thank you. I think also now out there, many professional interpreting organizations in different countries have higher expectations about evidence based practice. So maybe we don’t keep doing university level research but there’s that expectation that we remain informed by reading journals about our profession, our professional practices, and maybe it’s not scholarly research but agencies and companies do ask working interpreters to do some kind of research. There’s more of an expectation for that now. Like you said, it’s about quality and applications. Not just looking at what’s good and bad research but also looking at case studies and understanding that those can’t always be applied to different situations. What works in one situation might not work in another situation. But have the ability to discern some things from those case studies that can help us navigate other situations and to look for those patterns, those overlaps. When we do research, we do better at critically reading others’ research or ask better questions. Knowing good versus bad research questions. It helps us develop as professionals to have evidence based research inform our work.

Octavian: Oh, that reminds me of one thing that maybe many of us don’t exactly enjoy but it’s necessary. Service to the profession. For example, for interpreting associations- uh, in Canada, I think it’s… I forget now.

Christopher: It’s now CASLI. It used to be AVLIC. They changed their name.

Octavian: Yes, yes. That, that. Thank you, CASLI. Or here in the U.S., RID, there in the UK, ASLIUK. Those organizations have different people involved and you all have to do research. State of the field, interpreters, are they paid well/fairly, addressing interpreting related issues, demographics, do we have representation across different categories, gender, deaf, hearing, deaf blind, etcetera. Doing financial audits, how organizations spend money, recruit and retain interpreters, I mean, there’s so many things you have to know. So those professional organizations need their members to be able to do that kind of service to help strengthen and grow the profession while ensuring interpreters have a good quality of life, good salaries, opportunities for education, professional development, etcetera. That goes back to the basic research skills you learn in your undergrad programs. You bring that into service. So, can you think of some examples of research based activity that your association [ASLIUK] does?

Christopher: Hmm.. Oh, that’s interesting. Recently, we had a census study. So I, with Jemina Napier [Octavian: interjection, yes I know who that is: interpreting professor at Heriot Watt University in Edinburgh, Scotland] and Sandra, we got together to gather basic information about the interpreting profession. Who are our interpreters. What do they look like? We know from past surveys that there’s a big disparity among men and women. There’s a lot more women than men in the profession. And lots of anecdotes about most male interpreters being gay. Am I the first gay man to represent? No our census says that’s not true. In 20 [ASL/BSL fumble. 2010noooo. Laughter]. 2021. Which language is this? Anyway, in 2021. Here we go. We found some people. Interesting, in the same year, the UK had a general census. And yes, there were more queer interpreters in the interpreting profession in proportion to the general population. In the UK, well actually England and Wales, it’s about 6%. In our profession, it’s 14%. [Octavian: impressive]. That’s high. 20% men, 80% women. More straight men than gay men by the way. Even if you exclude Codas. Interesting. For example, we looked at that. For me, we also looked at different populations, like white interpreters, we have that but what about other groups? Here in the UK, we have a lot of different people come to the UK. Some communities are new and others have been here for a long time. So we looked at who those interpreters are. Again, interestingly, we have IOCN- Interpreters of Color Network, that’s their name for their organization, the sign is this [shows sign]. They have a lot of members from Africa or the Caribbean, we have some from India too. When we compare that to the UK census, the proportions of the populations are about the same. But for Asia, much less, not in proportion to the general population. We have our history of colonizing India, Pakistan, we’ve had that history, and we’ve had a settled population from those countries. But they aren’t involved in interpreting. There’s very few.

So, if we want to advocate for better representation in our profession, we need to lobby the government to grow this population of interpreters. How to reach out and target specific populations to expand representation and engagement. Also, many of those communities are multilingual. So we might need not only BSL/English but we also need different languages from different communities. Those who grew up familiar with those languages and can bring that. That’s a big gap we have and the research we did showed us that, identified the problem. Here in Britain, we use BME, that’s a British term. Black and Minority Ethnic communities. So we’re targeting Asian communities to expand representation from those communities. That doesn’t mean we don’t need more Black interpreters, there’s a clear disproportionate representation of white interpreters, we still need to examine that and address that. At the same time, we have a growing Asian deaf population here and there’s a clear need to recruit and train sign language interpreters with Asian backgrounds. So that was an interesting finding for us.

Octavian: Your comments leads me to think about how your research helps the interpreting profession become more effective advocates for both the field and for deaf communities. I can imagine you approaching government officials and saying, hey we want funding for more interpreting programs, funding for specific groups, for all those different asks, and their response might be… well, where’s the data that shows us we need that? [Christopher: oh yes.] Your intuition, your anecdotes, etcetera, they mean nothing. Those people need something on paper. Evidence. Here are the numbers, here is the impact. I’m going to latch onto that to think about two things. How does research help you think about dissemination? In doing research, you have to think about how you translate your work for a general audience that aren’t involved in the field or in the academy. How do you translate that? Hmm, so your work seems to do that. And also, doing research helps us think about what questions we should be asking. [Christopher: That, yes!]. What are good questions we ask? Maybe it’s as simple as entering an interpreting situation and realizing that something isn’t syncing. What’s the right question to ask to figure out that synergy? In practice, doing research helps us figure out good questions we need to ask and leads us to solutions or more effective interpreting. So to translate your work, you just did that census. What new questions came up for you?

Christopher: Hmm, that’s a good point. Yes. Interesting, the census, before we never had a full picture of the interpreting profession. Who are we? That means setting a baseline. Now we can track changes and add new questions, involve deaf interpreters and think about who deaf interpreters are. So far, there hasn’t been any good surveys about who deaf interpreters are, are they from deaf families, are there more men or women. Interesting, there’s more [gender] parity among deaf interpreters compared to hearing interpreters where we have a significant disparity. So, that was interesting. Also, we could ask about full-time and part-time work. We could develop a profile of the “average” interpreter. White woman, average age, 44., working part-time. We see that. They might have child care obligations or elder care obligations. So for people who want interpreters, they understand that our interpreters tend not to work full-time. Most of the time, interpreters are women with other obligations. So, we can put that in context. We can see that women have a lot of caring responsibilities. But in terms of using that data, our justice system- we call it the MOJ, the Ministry of Justice, like your DOJ [department of justice]. With the MOJ, myself, Jemina, we were talking with them about growing the interpreting field. We could show them the census. That’s our profession. If the MOJ wants more interpreters then they need to support us in different ways. So we can influence government through that data. Also, looking at that data, we recognize that although most interpreters are women, men claim more of the high stress, high profile jobs. So with legal work in courts and prisons, more men claim that work while there’s lesser expectation of women to do that. Some [women] do, yes, we have very good women interpreters in the legal system who are very good at that kind of work but in that area, it’s still highly dominated by men. We see a difference in willingness too. Again, we see that gendered disparity. Why do men want to do this work and women less so? And now we need to work on developing our profession through recruiting and support, to understand what that looks like. If we want more women interpreters in legal settings do we need women-only trainings? We don’t know. We need to figure that out. We intuitively knew that more men than women want to work in the legal system. The next research question is: why? So that’s a nice research project, to figure out why and support that endeavor in different ways. Yes. That’s interesting, more applied research to the profession.

Octavian: Yes. I think our time’s almost up. So, the time passed quickly. I really enjoyed our conversation. One last thought. I’m grounded in the Jesuit educational tradition, one thing that I’ve really internalized from that Jesuit education is thinking about the goal of a liberal arts education. The goal is well-rounded citizens of the world, which means you go out there and know that this isn’t trade school where you can just do one thing, but that you’re able to think expansively, to think about things from many perspectives, identify problems and solutions. The goal of a liberal arts education is a full toolkit and research is one valuable tool in that toolkit. I encourage you to think about it that way. You may not immediately recognize that value but in hindsight, you will. I hope this has ignited passion for research, [Christopher: clapping, yes yes]. Go for your M.A., Ph.D. Move to England and study with Dr. Stone [Christopher: Come come]. Yes, they’ll be going to you in droves. Haha.

Christopher: Well, they could go to Gallaudet too!

Octavian: Yes, maybe come for Deaf Studies with me or for our interpreting program. There’s plenty of opportunities out there. Awesome, thank you.

Christopher: Thank you.

End.

Dr. Stone is an eminent scholar in the field of sign language interpreting and translation. He’s been involved in quite a few professional interpreting organizations, has a lengthy publication record, and held leadership positions with the Association of Sign Language Interpreters United Kingdom (ASLIUK) and World Association of Sign Language Interpreters (WASLI), a former professor of interpretation and translation at Gallaudet University, and now teaches Ph.D., M.A., and B.A. programs in interpreting at Wolverhampton.